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REVISED DRAFT
MANSTON AIRPORT CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE
MINUTES of the MEETING held on 17 MARCH 2000
11.00am at MANSTON AIRPORT
PRESENT:
Sir Alistair Hunter
Chairman
Tessa Sherriff
Secretary
Derek Lawrence
Wiggins Group pIc
Tony Freudmann
Wiggins Group pic
Alastair Robertson
Airport Managing Director
Barry Coppock
Thanet District Council
Alan Poole
Thanet District Council
David Jillings
Thanet District Council
Gillian Reuby
Canterbury City Council
John FuJlarton
Kent County Council
Leigh Herington
Kent County Council
Sam Hodgson
Acol Parish Council
Zita Wiltshire
Broadstairs Town Council
John Garland
Birchington Parish Council
Andrew Baker
Manston Parish Council
Philip Sackett
Minster Parish Council
Michael Baxter
St Nicholas-at-Wade Parish Council
Robin Tapsell
Monkton Parish Council
Ian Minter
Thanet Chamber of Commerce
David Tyson
Manston Airport Group
Nadeem Aziz
Dover District Council
Rex Upham-Hill
MK Airlines
Tony Gould
T&GWU
Trevor Herron
Director of Planning Services -TDC
Brian Lear
Director of Environmental Services -TDC
The Chairman welcomed to the Committee Cllr Mrs Zita Wiltshire for Broadstairs Town Council, and Cllr Mrs Gillian Reuby as one of the three alternating representatives of Canterbury City Council.
1 APOLOGIES
Apologies for absence were received from John Elliott, John Bragg, Martin Tapp, Mike Kruger, Stephen Sadler, Nicholas Cole, Ray Razzell, Oliver Iny, and Dennis Hart. The Chairman welcomed Nadeem Aziz (for John Bragg), Michael Baxter (for Martin Tapp), Rex Upham-Hill (for Mike Kruger), Robin Tapsell (for Nicholas Cole), Philip Sackett (for Ray Razzell), Derek Lawrence (for Oliver Iny), and Alan Poole (for Dennis Hart).
The Committee was sorry to hear that the absence of Ray Razzell was due to the ill health of his wife, and best wishes were extended to them both.
2 MINUTES
The Minutes of the previous meeting having been circulated were agreed with the following two amendments:
Andrew Baker, Manston Parish Council had not been present as stated.
Page 7 Item 9.1. under Any Other Business. John Elliott had reported that proposed road improvements passed by KCC had been deferred, not rejected as stated, for consideration later in the year.
These amendments having been noted, the Minutes were signed as a true record by the Chairman
3 MATTERS ARISING
- Cargo movements: David Tyson queried cargo movement figures quoted in papers circulated with last Minutes. The Chairman said that the paper had not been a part of the minutes. {NOTE: This was not challenged at the time, but was incorrect] Alastair Robertson did not have figures to hand to answer the queries. The Chairman suggested that he should provide an answer at the next meeting.
4 SITUATION REPORT on AIRPORT DEVELOPMENTS
- 4.1Alastair Robertson reported:
4.1.1 that Oxfam relief flights to Mozambique had moved some 250 tonnes of aid, without the need for night flights.
4.1.2 that there had been an increase in training flights, mainly by British Airways for crew familiarisation, which also assisted in the training/qualification of Manston Air Traffic Control staff.
- 4.2.Tony Freudmann reported:
4.2.1 That at the last meeting, MACC had considered the application for the laying of concrete. Wiggins were to submit this to TDC by 16 February, but the application was delayed by the receipt of a letter from Richard Buxton -lawyer for Manston Airport Group -which letter had not been shown to the Committee at its meeting. TDC had deferred a decision. Wiggins' lawyers had responded to TDC from whom a decision was now awaited.
4.2.2 Mr Freudmann continued that Wiggins found that some of the comments made in a letter from MAG to members of TDC Planning Committee amounted to personal abuse. Such comments were unhelpful and of no benefit to either party. If matters were raised outside Committee, Wiggins would not respond.
- 4.3. David Tyson explained that MAG had not received Mr Buxton's letter by the date of the last meeting. He asked Mr Freudmann to substantiate his accusation. It was odd that Wiggins should complain about MAG acting out of Committee when they had announced their concreting plans in the press well before informing MACC. The Chairman suggested that the issue of "personal abuse" should be cleared up out of Committee.
- 4.4. Barry Coppock said members should be proud of the use of Manston for relief flights to Mozambique. He thanked Airport staff and applauded their effort. David Tyson seconded.
5 SECTION 106 AGREEMENT
- 5.1. Section 52 Agreement 1988
5.1.1 The Chairman, referring to the Minutes of the previous meeting, drew attention to the fact that Trevor Herron had, in response to a query, stated that the existing Section 52 Agreement had nothing to do with the proposed Section 106 Agreement. There had been a considerable number of queries on this statement, and it had been pointed out that the draft Section 106 Agreement states that "the Council releases the Owner from the covenants contained within the 1988
Agreement.
5.1.2 Trevor Herron apologised for the misunderstanding. At the time of making that statement, only Heads of Terms were under consideration (what is now Schedule 2), And up till then no mention had been made of Section 52 in the context of 106 Agreement negotiations.
5.1.3 Tony Freudmann said that Wiggins had been pleased to pay for the publication of the full Section 106 in the local press so that every member of the community could read it in full. Negotiations with TDC had been vigorous and Wiggins believed they had made important concessions. They would be following up the Agreement with a number of studies, which would be published, and brought to MACC for consultation.
- 5.2.General Comments on the Agreement: The Chairman suggested that discussion should concentrate on the Second Schedule of the draft. The preamble consisted mainly of technicalities, and the First Schedule (which had not yet been drafted) would merely consist of a detailed description of the Wiggins site.
5.2.1 John Garland said there was an item in the preamble that needed discussion, namely the 3-year term of the agreement. Trevor Herron explained that changes were quite likely to be made within that period, e.g. because airport developments required planning authority.
5.2.2 The Chairman asked community representatives in turn to give their communities' general reactions to the draft.
5.2.3 All community representatives except one reported concern at the possibility of night flights. Several felt that Quota Count 4 aircraft were unacceptably noisy and that the threshold of 63dB was too high. Some doubt was expressed about the reliability of the 1996 noise contour map.
5.2.4 Alan Poole, Michael Baxter and David Tyson questioned the removal of the 1988 Section 52 Agreement which had been perceived as a ban on night flying, and Zita Wiltshire claimed that both Tony Freudmann and Barry Coppock had stated in early 1999 that there would be no night flying at Manston.
5.2.5 Michael Baxter said it should not be for the operator to submit a night flying noise policy to Thanet District Council, but rather the reverse.
5.2.6 Several members wanted more restriction on engine testing and a dedicated testing bay constructed.
5.2.7 Robin Tapsell (for Monkton) and Gillian Reuby (Canterbury) reported concerns regarding route and frequency of training flights.
5.2.8 John Garland, David Tyson and Nadeem Aziz (Dover) said that a Masterplan and EIA should precede a Section 106 Agreement and should be based on the findings of the
EIA.
5.2.9 There was support for Gillian Reuby's view that more information/explanation would have been welcomed, the draft document being difficult to understand, particularly as plans and maps referred to in the agreement had not been included
5.2.10 Michael Baxter and Nadeem Aziz had found the consultation period too short.
5.2.11 It was generally felt that the level of fines was not sufficient deterrent and operators would simply treat these as normal operating costs. It was suggested that figures should be indexed for inflation, and that an escalating scale might be introduced to penalise frequent offenders. Nadeem Aziz said the use of fines for community benefit should not be confined to Thanet, but spread to include other similarly affected areas in Dover and Canterbury .
5.2.12 KCC TUC and Thanet Chamber of Commerce all welcomed the agreement and the fact that environmental issues were being addressed., but Tony Gould (TUC) said that the Masterplan and EIA should precede a Section 106.
5.2.13 Other issues raised were: Sunday flying; Transportation of livestock; Flightpaths; possible height restriction of flights.
- 5.3. Term of Agreement: The Chairman said that the original time table put forward by Wiggins had been for a Masterplan followed by environmental assessment, followed by a Section 106 Agreement. TDC then decided it wanted a Section 106 Agreement earlier. It would be useful to know what kind of criteria had been used in setting the terms of this agreement without use of a Masterplan or Environmental Impact Assessment. Also whether, if a Masterplan and EIA were completed (as provided for) within 12 months, consideration , would be given to amending the Agreement in the light of their findings.
5.3.1 Barry Coppock said that like most businesses, Wiggins could not forecast how much business there would be. The Committee must accept that there had to be give and take on both sides. The first draft Section 106 was for a 3-year term. But, should Wiggins undertake something fundamental, TDC could go back and ask for the agreement to be revised, and this was expected to happen. In 18 months or two years the Council would have a much better idea.
5.3.2 Leigh Herington, KCC, said that the Masterplan and EIA would bring in other matters that would need control, but the proposed Section 106 did not prohibit such consideration.
5.3.3 David Tyson pointed out that General Permitted Development Rights granted to Wiggins were under contention, and Trevor Herron confirmed that TDC were also seeking legal opinion on this.
- 5.4. Section 2 -Noise Contour Map
5.4.1 David Tyson stated that the contour was out of date. Noise levels had increased since 1996. A Consultation Paper recently produced by DETR had given 57dBLeq as the level at which significant community annoyance began. He also considered that the amount of fines was insufficient and did not constitute biting sanction.
5.4.2 There followed some discussion on agreed acceptable noise levels, both Trevor Herron and Brian Lear (TDC) stating that the noise contour shown in Plan 2 measured average noise over 16 hours. The threshold of 63dBLeq had been set by analogy with other UK airports. Trevor Herron said £10,000 was the industry norm for fines for aircraft exceeding statutory noise levels.
5.4.3 Replying to questions, Trevor Herron said the noise contour chosen for 1996 was a defendable position for the Council, as it reflected the known noise situation prior to Wiggins taking over the airfield.
5.4.4 Michael Baxter asked who would carry out the noise monitoring once the required equipment had been installed. Alastair Robertson said Airport staff would do this, but TDC would be consulted on the readings. "
5.4.5 David Tyson suggested mobile monitoring. David Jillings recalled that at a previous meeting it had been agreed that there would be mobile monitoring. Alastair Robertson stated that fixed monitors must be used to comply with international standards, the company would also carry out checks using mobile monitors. The Chairman pointed out that this was not specified in the 106 Agreement. Alastair Robertson said it could not be included because a consultancy report was awaited, but it was Wiggins' intention to do some mobile monitoring.
5.4.6 David Jillings and David Tyson felt that if a 57dB level was accepted in due course by DETR as being the norm, then that should be the figure used at Manston.
- 5.5.Dwelling Insulation Scheme - No substantial comments were made on this section.
- 5.6. Preferred Departure Runway/Noise Abatement Routes
5.6.1 In response to concerns expressed earlier, Alastair Robertson said the proposals in the draft were carefully designed to avoid major centres of population. But runway use had to depend on the weather. It was not possible to raise the height of the fiightpath over
Ramsgate.
- 5.7.Noise / Pollution Monitoring
5.7.1 Cllrs Jillings and Baker (for Cliffsend and Manston resp. ) said residents of those areas experienced intensive gasoline smells over short periods, caused by aircraft fuel emissions. Monitored readings averaged over a period of time would not show the degree of such pollution, and instant readings were required. Brian Lear (TDC) said all possibilities were being considered. It was suggested that more than three tubes might be needed, and that in locating them, priority should be given to locations which had problems.
5.7.2 Barry Coppock thought that MACC might like to utilise funds accumulated from fines for such equipment in the future, but the Chairman said this was an current problem. Zita Wiltshire and others thought the polluter should pay. John Garland said an Environmental Impact Assessment would pinpoint such items and pointed out that a huge investment would be required.
- 5.8. Engine Testing
5.8.1 John Garland and David Tyson asked whether there were plans to build a dedicated engine-testing bay. Alastair Robertson said there were no plans for an engine testing facility and that such facilities had not proved very successful in limiting noise.
5.8.2 Zita Wiltshire asked why engines needed to be tested at 11 pm- Alastair Robertson responded that they were only tested at this time in exceptional circumstances- Trevor Herron pointed out that the draft Agreement limited engine testing to 9pm unless circumstances were exceptional.
- 5.9.Night Flying
5.9.1 Trevor Herron explained that the Section 52 Agreement 1988 that prohibited night flying by civil aircraft within the civil enclave was not enforceable. The agreement did not affect movements outside of the civil enclave. Before Wiggins decided to operate night flights, however, they would be obliged to produce a night flying noise policy.
5.9.2 Tony Freudmann confirmed that Wiggins could not start regular night flights without submitting a night flying noise policy to roC at least six months before the commencement of regular night flights. At present there was no demand for, therefore no intention to start, regular night flights. If such a demand materialised, then the company would prepare such a policy.
5.9.3 In response to queries, Alastair Robertson said it would not be viable, in any event, to operate occasional night flights. David Tyson felt this should be put into the Agreement to avoid confusion.
5.9.4 David Jillings asked for an explanation of "The Owner agrees to prepare a night flying noise control policy, in consultation with the Council", to which Tony Freudmann replied that there would be genuine consultation but that Wiggins would not agree to, TDC giving a veto. If, after due consultation, TDC, did not agree, Wlgglns could still theoretically go ahead. Mr Jillings suggested that the wording "enter consultation with the intention of reaching agreement" would display intent, but Wiggins and TDC said that, as such words were not binding, it would not be appropriate to include them in the Agreement.
5.9.5 There was discussion about the acceptability of Quota Count 4 aircraft, and the level of noise they produced. In view of Members' concerns, Brian Lear agreed to circulate to members copies of DETR's latest information and findings on this subject.
5.9.6 David Tyson stated that according to the Melrose Report, all DC8s (such as those operated by MK Airlines) were Quota Count 4 on landing. In his view, the DC8s were unacceptably loud. In response Alastair Robertson stated that the acceptance of the Melrose findings was in broad principle.
5.9.7 John Garland asked if 63dB was best practice, was Quota Count 4 also best practice? Trevor Herron said that acceptable noise levels differed between airports. TDC had tried to strike a balance. Brian Lear said the set limit was not unreasonable using information from other airports.
5.9.8 Michael Baxter asked if Members could have sight of TDC's legal advice. Trevor Herron said no.
5.9.9 David Tyson said there should, at least, be a ban on aircraft with a QC in excess of 4, in line with other London Airports. Fines were insufficient compensation for the disturbance that would be caused.
- 5.10. Green Travel Strategy
5.10.1 Tony Freudmann said the production of this document was a commitment in the Agreement that Wiggins took very seriously. It was important that in the future as many people as possible travelled to the airport by means other than private car.
- 5.11. Masterplan
5.11.1 Tony Freudmann said the Masterplan would show projected development at the airport over 5, 10 and 15 years, including new road , and rail infrastructure. The Masterplan would be published as quickly as possible and MACC would be invited to discuss it.
- 5.12. Environmental Impact Assessment
5.12.1 John Garland asked whether health and safety issues would be included in discussions regarding an Environmental Impact Assessment, as an EIA would throw up areas of risk. Trevor Herron said this was not usual, but Leigh Herington said that in such consultation processes a section regarding areas of risk to the public was often included.
- 5.10. Payments
5.13.1 The Chairman said that it would be necessary to create a separate charitable trust to administer payments received from fines.
- 5.14. In response to a question from David Tyson, Trevor Herron said the next step was for a meeting to be held between Wiggins and TDC. Once comments from the public had been received and considered, progress was a matter for TDC Policy Committee, not open to further public consultation.
- 5.15. David Tyson proposed that: the Section 106 Agreement permitting night flying using Quota Count 4 aircraft should not be signed as it did not protect the people of Thanet. After some discussion, members were not in favour of putting the proposal to the vote, but it was agreed that it should be recorded that most community representatives had, on behalf of the bodies they represented, expressed concern regarding night flying policy contained in the draft Section 106 Agreement.
- 5.16.The Chairman encouraged members to independently send the views and comments of the bodies they represented to TDC, in addition to the letter he would be forwarding on behalf of MACC.
6 ANY OTHER BUSINESS
- Representation on the Committee IT WAS AGREED that seats on MACC be offered to local branches of the Association of Parish Councils to cover those areas affected by Airport development that at present had no representation.
7 DATE of NEXT MEETING To be advised.
There being no further business, the meeting closed at 2. 15pm-
MINUTES.(2) MAROO
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