MANSTON AIRPORT CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE

Comments on Environmental Statement as discussed in Committee 12th December 2001 (in addition to points raised in individual submissions from community groups already forwarded to TDC)

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Availability of document to Members

Copy with Canterbury City Council at least a week before any available to committee members. Ron Flaherty CCC

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Copies in libraries

Colour did not reproduce sufficiently clearly. Problem for members of public without access to Wiggins website. Martin Tapp St Nicholas

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Forecasts

If figures were slightly out, this would make a big difference. For example Table 1 shows average flight forecasts. No measure of sensitivity in forecasting. John Bragg Dover DC

ES should be treated as living document. Unexpected occurrences could affect projections. Dennis Hart Ramsgate

Events of September 11th -effect on projections. Various members

A survey of air transport since the 1970's showed a drop in air traffic during the oil crisis and another significant drop in 1991 but that 5% growth per annum had been maintained overall. It was almost inevitable that in the case of Manston there would be a slip as a consequence of the terrorist attacks of September 11th, but this should not affect future forecasts. The general feeling in the aviation industry was that it may take eighteen months for passenger traffic to return to previous levels. Liz Orme ADL

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TDC's response

Will MACC be shown TDC's response to the document? Martin Tapp

When the response becomes a public document, but until such time it remains private to TDC. Trevor Herron

Insufficient details on road traffic, and even less about noise. Enormous details about, for example, employment and air quality, but insufficient on the above. Martin Tapp

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Footprint

Request for footprint over whole area showing how access roads, buildings, car parks etc. will fit into Thanet. Not simply expansion of airport itself. No provision made for new businesses surrounding airport. Martin Tapp

Critical issue raised during the assessment. ADL had been assured by Wiggins that there were no plans to extend the footprint of the airport. Justin Keeble ADL

If all goes as forecast, by 2020 there would be substantially larger and busier access roads which would have to extend the footprint. Chairman

Strategic Masterplan identified where on the current land car parking would be accommodated. We are confident that we can accommodate the required car parking on existing land. It does not however provide for new businesses that may locate in the surrounding area. Paul Tipple Wiggins

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Nature Conservation

Consultation proceeding with English Nature on all aspects. Uz Orme

Environment Agency is required to take conservation very seriously. EA will be looking very closely at discharge into Pegwell Bay in conjunction with Local Authority and English Nature. Brief preliminary discussion already held with English Nature. Nick Williams Environment Agency

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Archaeology

Every aspect of new development has been preceded by surveys by Thanet Archaeological Trust. Nothing found so far. Every time new area is excavated, the Trust has every opportunity to research before construction continued. Paul Tipple

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Air Quality and emissions:

Query predicted levels of various pollutants. Nothing included on identifying waste streams and handling of same. i.e. fuel, paint spray plant emissions, de-icer. Such issues should be built into business plan. John Garland/Martin Tapp

There are areas of air quality that have not yet been modelled. ES makes number of recommendations that once source of emissions is identified, further modelling may be appropriate. Justin Keeble Given the fact that there are many potential sources of emissions, within the scope of this assessment, ADL have looked at those likely to cause greatest harm, and based conclusions on those. Alan Marples ADL

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Hazards

No systematic risk assessment on health and safety angle on hazards from paint spraying plant to possibility of aircraft crashing on Ramsgate. Chairman

Environmental impact will have been covered but potentially hazardous events not normally covered byan Environmental Statement. Alan Marples

When specific planning applications are made, details will be required of procedures to deal with potential hazards. Brian Lear

Are there not figures available from other airports, such as Heathrow and Gatwick, of how local environments have been affected by airport growth? Len Claisse KAPC Canterbury

Comparison not possible between areas. For example, Heathrow's close proximity to M4 which in itself causes heavy air pollution. Uz Orme

Mott McDonald used models from other airports, and using traffic forecasts for Manston, calculated air quality predictions as detailed in ES. Justin Keeble

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Water Sources

Protection of groundwater. Decrease of groundwater resulting from additional concrete/tarmac areas. Baseline survey of Pegwell Bay. Martin Tapp

Environment Agency has recently met with company who will undertake chemical survey ofdischarges from the Airport, and Wiggins have agreed to a biological survey of the mudflats at Pegwell Bay currently subject to discharge. EA will assist in producing a baseline survey, and has already identified determinants required for scoping exercise to identify current content of discharge. As the airport was previously Crown exempt, the Environment Agency had no knowledge of what has been discharged in the past. The survey would take years rather than months. At the point at which Wiggins apply for formal consent to discharge, all relevant bodies would be asked to comment, i.e. TDC, English Nature. Nick Williams

How will balancing ponds help with discharges and pollutants such as de-icing agents? Dennis Hart

Situation inherited by Wiggins was that everything ran off the side into the ground. The groundwater map of the area shows how much of a risk the airport is to the groundwater. In conjunction with Wiggins, EA has worked towards resolving some of the issues. Wiggins had agreed to try to get rid of any drainage that risked channelling contaminants down into Pegwell Bay, rather than into the ground. Ultimately, drinking water was the most important consideration. Wiggins had, in addition to complying with requirements of the EA, offered to install drainage for the Delta pads. This was in addition to immediate requirements. The balancing ponds would enable discharges to be analysed for contaminants., At the time that LMA applied for licence to discharge from the balancing ponds, there may be a requirement for the effluent to be treated before discharge.

Shortage of water was a concern. All surface water would be directed into soakaways via interceptors where necessary. The Environment Agency was fully consulted before applications went before planners. Constant exchange of information was ongoing. Nick Williams

In addition to the balancing ponds, there would be sophisticated equipment whereby it would be possible to monitor quality of discharge before it reached Pegwell Bay. Also, monitoring at various points in the outfall system. In the unlikely event of contaminants reaching Pegwell Bay, the Airport would know whether it had been responsible. Paul Tipple

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Transport.

Many lorries predicted to bring fuel from Ramsgate Port to Manston. Alternative approach required. Chairman

No account taken of traffic from Ashford. Len Claisse

It was the intention to carry out a Surface Impact Assessment which should address local issues not addressed by the ES. Liz Orme

ES includes A528 from Canterbury and 256 from Dover/Sandwich. Justin Keeble

An alternative approach was required for the number of tankers predicted to carry aviation fuel from Ramsgate port to Manston. The preferred alternative was a pipeline, but, were this to be either below or above ground, environmental and safety issues would require consideration. Paul Tipple

Query on traffic predictions relating to A299. By 2020 using figures used by ADL in 16hr flows put A299 at 115% capacity. Martin Tapp

The Surface Impact Assessment being worked on by TDC, KCC and Wiggins, would look at strategic routes, and equally importantly at local routes. The result should answer these questions. KCC as higher authority, would have to agree it. Trevor Herron TDC

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Noise Abatement

Locking on to ILS beam should be made mandatory at 2,500 feet.

New radar equipment urgently required to enable plotting of aircraft. Len Claisse/Ron Flaherty

LMA accept that new radar equipment needed, but more business needs to be forthcoming before this can be considered. Alastair Robertson

Residents, particularly in Ramsgate, are entitled to peace. Such issues should be built into business plan. Residents should not have to wait on business development to provide finance for such equipment. Ron Flaherty

Should be understood that people not used to aircraft noise at all, find any aircraft noisy. Amendment to noise abatement route has alleviated problem for Herne Bay. Len C/aisse,

Much said about noise abatement amendment for Herne Bay, but no attempt to alleviate problem over Birchington caused by aircraft flying over twice. John Garland

It was the intention to replace the radar system and discussions were in place with suppliers. It was hoped that a new system would be installed by Summer 2003. Paul Tipple

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Noise and Noise contours.

How do occasional very loud aircraft relate to a 16hr Leq contour?
When are there going to be results from noise monitors? A few extremely noisy events do not register a high Leq reading.
On what information have noise contours been based?
How can noise reduce as the airport becomes busier? Assumption has been made that noisier aircraft will be phased out. In doubt since EU reversed ruling to ban Chapter 2
Efforts should be concentrated on getting noise of aircraft down. 
Why has 63 Leq threshold been used by ADL but 57Leq used in Thanet Local Plan?
Chairman/ John Bragg/John Gar/and

Leq modelling was used as it is aviation industry standard. In hindsight, because the number of aircraft movements and fleet mix at Manston, there is potential rationale to look at peaks as well as Leq. It should be stressed that over time the intention is to phase out noisier aircraft, which will reduce perceived noise. Liz Orme

Government information states that at 57Leq, noise becomes a noticeable issue to people. Trevor Herron

Noise contours for 2000 and 2001 were produced from information provided by LMA and Wiggins, on actual aircraft movements. Future contours were produced by a standard modelling method using a 92 day/year period from June to September. However, a few very noisy events punctuated by long quiet periods, would artificially reduce the Leq level. This was particular/y relevant for Thanet as Manston uses higher noise aircraft. Suggest that footprint of an individual aircraft be used as alternative method. This was a hypothetical exercise that needed putting into context with actual measured noise levels. David Foote Manchester Airport group

There would be no perfect solution. The monitoring equipment would be used to pinpoint areas of difficulty. Brian Lear

Noise complaints figures used are incorrect. Chairman

Acknowledged. Old data had been used in error. Liz Orme 

Tables 91 and 92 refer to population per hectare, whereas Sec 106 asks for number of people affected by noise.

Research from 1992 showed 90dba unlikely to cause sleep disturbance whereas elsewhere 90dba is quoted as being noise level created by unsilenced pneumatic drill at 7 metres.

Confidential Questionnaire should be sent by TDC to headteachers on a regular basis to judge levels of disturbance,

Night flights not being considered by Wiggins at moment TDC should put condition in Sec 106 that airport cannot be used for night flights.

On what fleet mix have the forecasts been made? Lack of ongoing noise predictions shattering in its silence, Confused by issue on Chapters 2 and 3, Hush kitted Chapter 2's are only fractionally quieter and will continue to fly. Possibility that more such aircraft will be attracted to Manston. Cannot accept that 50 flights of hushkitted Chapter 2s will be quieter than one or two Illushyns. Therefore cannot accept figures. Martin Tapp

A reduction of 3dba at source would halve the area of an individual noise contour. David Foote

Difficulty in accepting than a 3dba reduction at source will halve area of individual contour. Various.

Need for further explanation on whole subject of noise, noise contours, future predictions of same. Layman's guide needed to enable better debate. Request that Manchester Airport produce clearer information as above, not only for MACC and members of the public, but also for Cabinet members of TDC. Trevor Herron/Brian Lear

Sensitivity needs to be introduced into analysis possibly by producing footprints of particular aircraft as they fly over, Also under terms of Sec 106 Wiggins was obliged to supply noise contours based on Sept 2000- Sept 2001 so that TDC could determine arrangements for the noise insulation scheme.

In addition to production of a general guide, Manchester would be asked to take into account such sensitivity. Wiggins were very conscious of lack of noise contours beyond Syrs. Wiggins would be prepared to work with Manchester to extrapolate information to 2010 in effort to going some way towards forecasting. Paul Tipple

As noise was clearly the most important issue, the further work agreed to would be helpful. Chairman

Accepted as a true record of the Meeting. Sir Alistair Hunter -Chairman

MIN.DEC 2001

 

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